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Topic Subject: Rebel Fleets...
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posted 01-13-07 02:02 PM EDT (US)   
Im looking for the ideal Rebel Fleets. Give me ur thoughts about what the ideal Rebel Fleet is for assaulting a fully upgraded space station, defending against a massive imperial attack, what kind of ships would best be used for assaulting pirate statinos.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
Replies:
posted 02-04-07 02:14 PM EDT (US)     51 / 238  
Yes. Stormraider's plan is as effective a counter as there is (at least from how I see it) and you are both right that plans need improvision. All plans can go wrong very quickly... and the only counter for that is improvision. Most often the winner is the person with best improvising skills. No strategy is fool-proof... And if there was a perfect strategy it would get patched and made imperfect.

Also please note that I don't think that the Fighter Fleet is invincible or that it works in all situations. In fact I haven't even tried it. I haven't even played EaW in like 5 weeks and only got it on Christmas.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
posted 02-04-07 02:46 PM EDT (US)     52 / 238  
Okay I'll reiterate one of my previous points: NO FIGHTERS if you are REBEL or CONSORTIUM
-FIGHTERS AND BOMBERS ARE TARGET PRACTICE; a single tartan/corvette/gunship/whatever-the-Consortium-calls-their- anti-fighter ship will shred a figher formation, and if one uses a broadside or Marauder's bombardment ability properly the fighters are toast.
-assuming you are playing galactic conquest, FIGHTERS ARE A WASTE OF CREDITS AND POPULATION POINTS, for the same price as three X-Wing squadrons you can get a Corvette, which does the same job for only two points. It isn't all that different for bombers and Marauders. This can also be applied to Skirmish Battles
-FIGHTER FLEETS LACK THE PUNCH YOU NEED AGAINST HEAVILY DEFENDED POSISTIONS; after all not only can a single anti-fighter ship fry the formation, enemy garrison fighters can tie up you fighters and bombers in dogfights, giving heavier ships time to take shots.
-FIGHTERS AND BOMBERS HAVE LOW HEALTH, sure they can take a few hits from enemy light lasers, but if an Acclamator's laser cannons or an ISD's turbolasers score a hit the fighters is gone.
These are why only garrison fighters are the only fighters that should ever be used.
posted 02-04-07 03:32 PM EDT (US)     53 / 238  
False those points have been shot dwon already.

Ok say you get the corvette, larger target, those are target practice for CapShips, If you read my post you would see that CapShips cant target fighters very well and those tartans you speak of get shot up by th Gunships and Vettes. Its true, the fighter fleet is made for more defensive battles, which is why you only need to add 2-4 Neb B Firgates to assault space stations.

Acclamators are ridiculosuly weak. They are terrible ships, i personally like to blow these up with Fighter Fleets. An ISD fleet is a good fleet i dread having to face off with those fleets with Fighter Fleets, but generally i am succesful. Fighter Fleets can haves so many ships in the fleet that they eventually can win by numbers.

Also remember that this fleet is a good fleet for early in the game win your enemy is highly unlikley to have ISD's.

All of your statements are highly questionable since you are being absolute with this.

Any one else like to take a crack at taking apart DG's argument.


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 02-04-07 04:08 PM EDT (US)     54 / 238  

Quote:

Okay I'll reiterate one of my previous points: NO FIGHTERS if you are REBEL or CONSORTIUM
-FIGHTERS AND BOMBERS ARE TARGET PRACTICE; a single tartan/corvette/gunship/whatever-the-Consortium-calls-their- anti-fighter ship will shred a figher formation, and if one uses a broadside or Marauder's bombardment ability properly the fighters are toast.

Which is why you--counter to the movies--hold your fighters/bombers back. You may use a few to scout forward, but generally you hold the main body back UNTIL you've engaged the enemy force. Then, with their ships largely distracted, and yours slugging it out, you are free to micromanage your fighters and bombers, sending them in where needed.

Quote:

-assuming you are playing galactic conquest, FIGHTERS ARE A WASTE OF CREDITS AND POPULATION POINTS, for the same price as three X-Wing squadrons you can get a Corvette, which does the same job for only two points. It isn't all that different for bombers and Marauders. This can also be applied to Skirmish Battles

Except that Corvette can be in one place, only, while those three Xwing squadrons can be in one, two, or three places. As well, a single CapShip will devastate that Vette--especially if the enemy has an ISD with TracBeam--whereas your Xwings are free to fly about, dodging its fire and eliminating the Tie Bombers so your CapShips are hassle free. As well, if you lose a few fighters per squadron, they are repaired for free over the turn. Even if you lose a whole squadron, you still have the other two left. If you lose that Vette, you've lost the credits.


Quote:

-FIGHTER FLEETS LACK THE PUNCH YOU NEED AGAINST HEAVILY DEFENDED POSISTIONS; after all not only can a single anti-fighter ship fry the formation, enemy garrison fighters can tie up you fighters and bombers in dogfights, giving heavier ships time to take shots.

If you put your bombers into dogfights, you're a fool anyway. As well, you do not SEND fighters in against heavy positions unguarded. You mix your fleet up, with CapShips to take out the heavy positions, and your fighters to engage enemy fighters/bombers, while your bombers knock out important hardpoints.

Quote:

-FIGHTERS AND BOMBERS HAVE LOW HEALTH, sure they can take a few hits from enemy light lasers, but if an Acclamator's laser cannons or an ISD's turbolasers score a hit the fighters is gone.

As already mentioned, Acclamators are immensely weak. They are arguably the worst ship in the game cost/benefit wise, and I would willingly throw even Xwings at them, due to their relative lack of power. As well, those fighters come in squadrons for a reason. I'm more than willing to lose a few fighters or bombers per squadron, if it results in the hardpoints on your CapShips being destroyed. With Engines and ShieldGens gone, your Acclamator or ISD isn't going anywhere, and the bombers will pick it apart at their leisure, while the fighters make a mess of your Eyeballs.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
posted 02-04-07 05:01 PM EDT (US)     55 / 238  
Stormraider addressed just about everything very thoroughly, except this...

Quote:

if an Acclamator's laser cannons or an ISD's turbolasers score a hit the fighters is gone.

Wrong! I've seen fighters get 2 or 3 blasts from an ISD and come out the other side... and as has been said uncountable times already, they don't get hit often.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
posted 02-04-07 05:11 PM EDT (US)     56 / 238  
Ok everyone has just about taken apart DG'd argument rather thoroughly, ill add one more thing that i may have already said but ill say it anyway...


Laser batteries on CapShips have the targeting of a turtle, they cannot target fast moving fighters, or even slow bomber, they are too small and moving to quickly. And like GoSailing said, the blasts work on everything above fighter-class ships, but hey we are talking about fighters so tough luck. I wonder is thi kid has ever actually played the game? Im serious this is all easy stuff to no if you have actually played the game.


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr

[This message has been edited by DeadlyRifle (edited 02-04-2007 @ 05:18 PM).]

posted 02-05-07 02:18 PM EDT (US)     57 / 238  
That's why you bring in a bunch of your anti-fighter craft, as I've stated a couple times. Sure, they're vulnerable to heavies, but at the rate they rip apart your single ships, it's well worth it.


I'm Your Daddy
92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
Can't believe on back on this damned site again.
posted 02-05-07 07:45 PM EDT (US)     58 / 238  
Fighters can out run Tartans and if all you have is anti fighter craft then the Neb B's and gunships will rip them apart. If you don't have 10 or so Tartans, they post no real threat, but they can cause extra casualties.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
posted 02-05-07 09:31 PM EDT (US)     59 / 238  
Time to defend my point:
YES I DO OWN THE GAME AND I AM TALKING FoC UNITS HERE

okay if you have ever payed attention the standard laser hardpoint (not turbolasers) is rather effective though it takes longer than Vette guns do. Plus on the Acclamator you also have the CONCUSION MISSILES which the Gunship uses to take down bombers, therefore the Acclamator can use it to a similar exent. NOTE: this all comes from my own experiences on FoC were I lost multiple fighter/bomber squadrons to an Acc because I was unaware that those lasers are accurate at short range. Rember not all fighting is a max range engagement.
Futher Imperail garrison fighters from their ships can for the Rebels into dogfights (that's what happens when the icons go stationary if you pay attention) which again gives the Tartans time to kill the rebels.
And I do not recomend the ISD's in AA roles, those would only engage the rebel ships hitting the tartans. On the note of the heavy lasers too, the shots won't kill a squadron, but they will kill inividual fighters, if they make concact, which as you say is unlikely, but at point blank the chances almost double.
And yes Stormraider, Acc's aren't the best and your points make good sense, but remember the garrison TIEs and like I said those two light lasers and the concusion missiles do give it some AA punch though it is better suited to hitting enemy light ships
And to everyone saying that CapShips would nail the Tartans, what about the Victories, Acclamators, and ISDs enegaging YOUR Capships? If you assign a MonCal to hit a tartan, while an ISD is in range YOU ARE A FOOL. Prioritize your targets people.
Oh, and about the absolute statements, sorry, if I seem that way, I actaully agree these aren't perfect plans/reasons but it has always worked for me, and I wrote it that way.

[This message has been edited by DG_republicmk0 (edited 02-05-2007 @ 09:48 PM).]

posted 02-05-07 10:03 PM EDT (US)     60 / 238  

Quote:

If you assign a MonCal to hit a tartan, while an ISD is in range YOU ARE A FOOL. Prioritize your targets people.

No, you're someone who understands that Shield Boost counters ISD's few seconds of advantage, and once you end the Tartan threat, your bombers will end the ISD twice as fast as otherwise.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
posted 02-05-07 10:12 PM EDT (US)     61 / 238  
Imperial fighters are worthless and most of them won't even get a chance to spawn with bombers destroying hangers.

Quote:

On the note of the heavy lasers too, the shots won't kill a squadron, but they will kill inividual fighters, if they make concact

No. They will not kill an individual fighter. Plain and simple.

Quote:

And to everyone saying that CapShips would nail the Tartans, what about the Victories, Acclamators, and ISDs enegaging YOUR Capships? If you assign a MonCal to hit a tartan, while an ISD is in range YOU ARE A FOOL. Prioritize your targets people.

The big ships would be ripped apart by bombers and the only real threat would be the Tartans. And they are easy to get rid of... Its better to get rid of the buggers biting your leg first, because with time they will rip you apart piece by piece.

Quote:

...dogfights (that's what happens when the icons go stationary if you pay attention)

We aren't idiots...


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old

[This message has been edited by GoSailing (edited 02-05-2007 @ 10:14 PM).]

posted 02-06-07 05:35 PM EDT (US)     62 / 238  
Ok well that was fun. Now I haven't played FoC yet but if we were talking bout it, ther would be B-Wings in the Fighter Fleets, cause from what i have heard and read bout those babies, they kcik ass.

Ok no one feels like responding thts cool


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr

[This message has been edited by DeadlyRifle (edited 02-07-2007 @ 06:43 PM).]

posted 02-07-07 07:22 PM EDT (US)     63 / 238  
Sorry about the dogfighting comment,
and I will have to agree with the previous comments that no strategy is perfect, and each can easily come apart, though I do want one thing explained, How does a MonCal fit into the fighter fleet tactic?
posted 02-07-07 08:15 PM EDT (US)     64 / 238  
Maybe as a heavy ship to wipe away enemy corvette units, but that's about all the use I can see for it.

EDIT: Oh, and because you often need something big and scary to deal with space stations.



I'm Your Daddy
92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
Can't believe on back on this damned site again.

[This message has been edited by watchwood (edited 02-07-2007 @ 08:16 PM).]

posted 02-07-07 09:08 PM EDT (US)     65 / 238  
Nobody mentioned a MonCal in the tactic. Just gunships, fighters, bombers and maybe a Neb B or 2 in reserve if the enemy has nearly only tartans.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
posted 02-08-07 03:19 PM EDT (US)     66 / 238  
this is for FoC since they have the hyperspace first thing

be warned i can't spell the names of some of the ships but i'm doing my best

rebels - 1 x-wing squadren comes in and scouts out a little. upon finding a good area i set myself up with 2 muaraders for destroy the space stations hanger and photon torp hard points straight out. I'll also warp in a mon cal for protection as well as a 2-3 nebulons and 2-3 corilians then if i see a mass of tartans coming, they can't do to much except maybe knock down my mauraders which will have already at least destroyed the hanger by their first barrage. if a mass comes at me, i'm out of range of the space station so i can deal with the threat directly.

I might also slip a correilian out of formation and warp in some Y-wings for a stike from behind. Relatively Cheap(pending certian circumstance), Effective, and works for me very well with minimal losses (never lost a mon cal and have lost very few Y-wings. nebulons)

Empire- i'll post later. mostly cause i'm in class and class is over

posted 02-08-07 05:34 PM EDT (US)     67 / 238  
Good stuff, so where would B-Wings fit?

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 02-09-07 12:40 PM EDT (US)     68 / 238  
As my understanding of FoC goes, the Ywings are replaced by Bwings, so I imagine where he put "Ywings", it would be the B's.

"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
posted 02-09-07 02:44 PM EDT (US)     69 / 238  
ya sorry the B-wings replace Y-wings since their fighter/bombers and better.

Y-wings are old school though

Empire strategy for me. . .is actually relativly similiar.
except it starts with tie scouts. They find an area without astriods around or with a few build pads. Then i warp in 2 broadsides and 3 tartans for Y/B wing threats If anything bigger comes in I can send in either Acclamters or ISD's in to deal with that. Once again my first target is the Hanger My second is ussually photon torp hardpoint since they go through shields.

Then once the station is down i'll either continue my assult with the broadsides or I'll launch anouth ISD or 2 but i always leave two pop to warp in an interdicter to prevent retreat. I ensure total annihalation of my enemy, no retreats for them to lick their wounds. Hence why i consider myself more evil with the empire.

slightly more expensive then the rebels but i ussually only lose broadsides but not often, the scouts and maybe a tartan or two.

Consortium- don't have a good strategy yet but i am working on one while I play and will post one when i think i have a good one

posted 02-14-07 05:59 PM EDT (US)     70 / 238  
I thought the B-Wings were much better than any other rebel fighter, or thats what i have read about them.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 02-14-07 08:38 PM EDT (US)     71 / 238  
The general idea of the B-Wing was to create a fighter that was powerful enough that a squadron of them could decimate an entire capital ship themselves.

In essence that is what they are, armed with three heavy laser cannons, another three ion cannons, and a heavy payload of torpedoes as well as powerful shields and thick armor, the only downside is that there is no room for engines and due to a lack of an astromech droid they don't have very advanced hyperspace capabilities.

Of course I'm sure that in the new expansion pack that they have been balanced out. Probably they are weak against fighters and strong against capital ships and probably slower then average bombers.


HEAD OF DEFENSE
FURRYRODIAN
: State of Scarlet : Projects : Movie-Battles :
" Intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us."
- War of the Worlds

posted 02-15-07 03:43 PM EDT (US)     72 / 238  
I would think though that they wouldn't even put them in if that is the case. Then they are Y-Wings just different looking, they probably are a cross between the Rebel fighters, but more expensive, so they would be fighter and cap ship killers.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 02-15-07 05:36 PM EDT (US)     73 / 238  
The B-Wing (from FoC) is kind of like a cross between the X and y wings. It has the same ability as the X wing (increased speed at decreased fire power) but can also fire torpedos.
In game they are Strong Versus any Imp star destroyer (imperial, victory, or acclamator) and share all fighters enemy of the tartan cruiser. However B wings also suffer from a weakness to TIE Defenders.
They come in squads of 3 fights and are purchased for 300 credits. Personnal i find them usefull as space station destroyers and sometimes Victory/ Imperial star destroyer destroyers. Given of course that the proper backup is around. I do think however that in the expansion, the rebelion gets ripped off, in space they get 2 new units (B-wings and new type of Mon Cal frigate) while you have the empire with a shiny new death star that can shoot at cap ships and the executioner (misspelt) which is darth vaders personnal Super Star Destroyer.
the only thing that makes up for it is the new Hyperspace First feature, which you can use to send in 1 squad of something in and then reinforce what you want where you want. However against an amped up Empire with new TIE units (the intercepter, phaton, and defender) and the overly powerful Zann Consortium with buzz droids for fighters and shield leech for everything else, it makes fighting as the rebelion in space much much harder.
posted 02-15-07 09:16 PM EDT (US)     74 / 238  
It does, i have only played FoC onc, but that was enough to convince me that it is much more fun but harder. It requires much more tactics but also a hell of alot more improvisation. Personally i think the Rebels got ripped off in terms of getting new things, they get 2 ships (admtidly these ships are kick ass) and the Empire get, New Death Star, Executor, TIE Interceptor, Phantom, and Defender. Tehn the Zann Consortium has theose extremely good CapShips and mostly good all around

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
posted 02-16-07 08:38 PM EDT (US)     75 / 238  

Quote:

No. They will not kill an individual fighter. Plain and simple.

This is the parts of the game that are so unrealistic I wanna stab somebody at Lucasarts for. Make an actual realistic game for once! I know it's bloody sci-fi/fantasy but still, at least adhere to what we see on screen. Fighters get blasted by medium turbolaers on the Death Star there's just no helping the poor bastards in any of the movies... yet here go fighters taking 3 or even 4 shots from capship guns...


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