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Star Wars: Empire at War Heaven » Forums » Strategy » Rebel Fleets...
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Topic Subject:Rebel Fleets...
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DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-13-07 02:02 PM EDT (US)         
Im looking for the ideal Rebel Fleets. Give me ur thoughts about what the ideal Rebel Fleet is for assaulting a fully upgraded space station, defending against a massive imperial attack, what kind of ships would best be used for assaulting pirate statinos.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
AuthorReplies:
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-14-07 12:41 PM EDT (US)     1 / 238       
When assaulting a Space Station, you'll always want a few MonCals (or Assault Frigates if you have less cash), to do the heavy work. I prefer two to three.

You'll also want either a few fighters, or preferably 2 Corvettes, to take out enemy bombers.

It's also optional to bring along a Marauder Cruiser or two. Sometimes I don't bother with this, but if the Station is heavily defended, you can sit back for awhile and bomb it from range, waiting for the defenders to come to you. This drastically decreases your likely losses.


You'll find the all around best combination will always be the mix of a few heavy cruisers (MonCal or Assault), and 4-6 Corvettes. Gunships are useful early game, but late game I only use them if I can build 6-8 of them, and use them to harass enemy CapShips, destroy one or two, then retreat.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-15-07 11:07 AM EDT (US)     2 / 238       
Good one

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
Xaph
Shalashaska
(id: Xaphianion)
posted 01-16-07 04:49 PM EDT (US)     3 / 238       
I've never been able to effectively use Marauder's, but as you're Rebels, I'd suggest using a pinpoint stratagy: use your fighters to draw the Imperial fleet apart, and then use your engines to make hit and run on specific ships. All the while, have your Marauder assault the station, I guess.

I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.
I love you in a totally platonic way Xaph - Jon Rolos | Xaph does mutha****in' win the thread. - Anakin
Xaph, I wish you were my friend IRL - Boba Fettucini
Well I think it's obvious why Peter Noone would care about Xaph - Newt_Gunray
Xaph is suddenly full of win! - Zaarin | Xaph, how often do you win threads? Because you just won this one - Catabre
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-16-07 11:47 PM EDT (US)     4 / 238       

Quote:

I've never been able to effectively use Marauder's,

They work wonders against Stations, and they're quite handy for decimating an Imperial Fleet's fighters as they emerge.

Because, unlike the Rebels, you always know where the fighters will be coming from, you can simply target the Hanger Bays, and decimate the fighters as they emerge.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-17-07 09:58 PM EDT (US)     5 / 238       
I never use Marauders just because they get blown to pieces to easily, the second the enemy commits a ship or squadron to take out the Marauder they get destroyed by that particular ship or squadron, cause like it says the have no armor, speed or maneuviability.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-18-07 09:47 AM EDT (US)     6 / 238       
But while a Human player will specifically target your Marauders, the AI will just go for whichever force is closest. Because of this flaw, you can screen your Marauders and generally all they'll have to deal with is a Tie Squadron or two.

"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-18-07 11:26 AM EDT (US)     7 / 238       
Good point

Anyways my prefered fleet for asaulting the level 5 space stattion over Coruscant consists of:

3 Mon Calamari Cruisers
1 Mon Calamari Cruiser in reinforcements
6 Correlian Corvettes
2-3 Assault Frigates
3 Y-wing Squadrons
2-Wing Squadrons
Commander Ackbar's ship Home 1


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-18-07 09:18 PM EDT (US)     8 / 238       
For the price of those Assault Frigates, why not just buy another MonCal?

"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 01-18-07 11:14 PM EDT (US)     9 / 238       
And one mon cal is only 4 reinforcement points, while 3 assault frigates is 9 points...

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
WatchWood
Ensign
posted 01-19-07 08:48 AM EDT (US)     10 / 238       
That's the thing with using the smaller ships - it's a tradeoff between size and power. And you often can get a smaller ship out in a situation where you don't have enough reinforcement points for the bigger ones, which is especially important in a pinch. That's about why I carry ships of all sizes in my reinforcements.


I'm Your Daddy
92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
Can't believe on back on this damned site again.
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 01-19-07 12:55 PM EDT (US)     11 / 238       
Well yes, you need to have ships of all sizes to be able to bring in ships when you only have 1 or 2 reinforcement points, but that doesn't mean you start the attack with them. Obviously you need a balanced force and not just Mon cals...

2 or 3 Corvettes with a few in reserve
4 or 5 squads of bombers to destroy shield generator and other important hard points
1 or 2 Neb B frigates for Tartans and to draw fire of Acclamaotrs
2 Marauder Cruisers to constantly bombard station or ISDs if fleet is getting owned
Han (always gotta have the falcon for fighters and bombers)
Home 1
Rest Mon Cals.

Most players will use their acclmators to try to get rid of the Nebulon B frigates, which is nice because it frees up your Mon cals to do heavy work. The corvettes are there obviously to deal with fighters and bombers. The bombers will destroy shield generator hardpoint pretty quickly which makes it much easier to destroy the station. Multiple bomber squads take up more reinforcment points than they are worth after they destroy the shield generator, but they get killed pretty quickly which frees up points. Han should be targeting bombers first and fighters later and trying to draw fire from ISD's (make him attack squadrons near them if possible). Have the Mon Cals at the front of the fleet with the corvettes just behind. When the fighters and bombers start popping out of ships, have corvettes engine up and wholesale slaughter. Home 1 should be just a bit behind the front lines so it can still engage the enemy front lines, but the enemy's back lines can't engage it. While you tie up enemy fleet bring bombers in from a different direction and target the station's shield generators. Use the marauder cruisers to target the Station's Ion Canons or Laser Canons so it loses offensive punch that hurts the rebel fleet.

Obviously this strategy isn't perfect. While its effective against most fleets, it really depends what the Imps are building. Make sure you modify your fleet so you have all the needed counter units.


PS: Sorry if this seems like an unorganized mess, I'm home sick and I'm not thinking to clearly.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old

[This message has been edited by GoSailing (edited 01-19-2007 @ 01:06 PM).]

Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-20-07 01:10 PM EDT (US)     12 / 238       
I'm still not sold on the use of the smaller CapShips. Why risk losing one or both of those Nebs, and their accompanying cash, when one MonCal is unlikely to be destroyed in their place, and does the same job?

"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 01-20-07 05:04 PM EDT (US)     13 / 238       
First off I was talking about Skirmish matches, and I guess you are talking about Galactic Conquest. In Galactic Conquest, I wouldn't use the Neb B's either. I would have one or 2 in back up so they could take out tartarns, but I would try to get on without them. In skirmish, its worth it to take the Neb Bs to get rid of Tartans quickly and to draw out the enemy fleet. You want to do everything you can to minimize your enemy concentrating fire on your heavy duty ships - the mon cals. Sure, 2 Neb B's cost more than 1 Mon Cal, but with the enemy drawing fire away to get rid of the anoying frigates it frees up your mon cals. With the shield boost on the frigates (I know mon cals have it also, but not nearly as effective) they can take a long time to destroy. It takes longer to destroy 2 Neb Bs than 1 Mon Cal which means other units of your fleet can live or at least live longer because they aren't getting shot at as much.

Micro isn't as big a deal in this game, but I play a few games where it is absolutely everything. Empires: DMW, for example, and especially in Imp age, has a lot of micro. The whole idea of the micro is to get every unit to shoot one unit of its counter (difficult to do with 1000 troops on a side). Say person A has 100 infantry, but is just letting them fight without any direction. Person B has 100 identical infantry, but is microing. He is selecting all of his infantry and giving them one target at a time, eliminating it imediately. Then he goes on to the next and so on. He will end up winning with over 20 infantry left. (Trust me I've tried it when showing somebody in my clan this) and if the person is particulary quick you can have about 30 infantry left.

Sorry about the off topic bit but it is relevent. The point is, your army is more effective if your units aren't getting concentrated fire. Its better to have a bunch of injured units that can fight back than to have a few units of perfect health (the few units would have perfect health because they would either be dead or never attacked).

The Neb Bs cause the enemy to spread out fire more, which actually saves other mon cals from dying. Its especially more effective if you are in 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 games where the battles are large and most people can't micro effectively.

*pant pant* Sorry about the long post and if it doesn't make sense just ask and I will explain directly...


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-23-07 09:20 PM EDT (US)     14 / 238       
I agree Go Sailing, about the Neb B's. In Galactic Conquest the only large need for Neb B's is the destruction of pirates fleets earlier in the game. But i have found that if u put one of them in a large Corellian Corvette and Fighter Fleet, they work wonders, not only do they take out the battle-tipping Tartans, but they are good agaisnt bigger ships as well.

In Skrimish they are needed for early and late in the game for takign care of Tartans, which can demoslih ur fighter strength and for drawing fire with boost shield power.

Has anyone ever tried using an all Fighter and Corellian Corvette fleet? I have, it has been crazy, the only thing they are bad at is assaulting space stations. Fighters are small enough to avoid the fire from Frigates and Cap Ships. The Corellian Corvettes provide extra firepower and speed plus the elimination of the dreaded Tartan Patrol Cruisers . The Fighters are constantly moving, you can't sit back and watch with these battles, you have to be in constant control of the fighters, making sure they have targetrs (this msotly apples to the Y-Wings), The regular fighters need to make sure that they don't stary into lines of fire, all the while keeping TIE-Bombers off of the Corellian Corvettes and TIE-Fighters off of the Y-Wings.


This is the Fighter Fleet that i recommend
2-4 X-Wing Squadrons
3-5 A-Wing Squadrons
3-5 Y-Wing Squadrons
2-4 Corellian Corvettes


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr

[This message has been edited by DeadlyRifle (edited 01-23-2007 @ 09:32 PM).]

Reaper_93
Ensign
posted 01-24-07 09:50 AM EDT (US)     15 / 238       

Quote:

Micro isn\'t as big a deal in this game, but I play a few games where it is absolutely everything. Empires: DMW, for example, and especially in Imp age, has a lot of micro. The whole idea of the micro is to get every unit to shoot one unit of its counter (difficult to do with 1000 troops on a side). Say person A has 100 infantry, but is just letting them fight without any direction. Person B has 100 identical infantry, but is microing. He is selecting all of his infantry and giving them one target at a time, eliminating it imediately. Then he goes on to the next and so on. He will end up winning with over 20 infantry left. (Trust me I\'ve tried it when showing somebody in my clan this) and if the person is particulary quick you can have about 30 infantry left.

True, but what happens when he notices concentrated fire? He dances his targeted unit away, making your infantry run after that one guy while the rest of his men get in free shots. Every move in micromanagement has a counter-move. Then again, the point is that not many people micro-manage in large space battles, not that I could totally whip Go Sailing\'s ass in Empires

Anyway, I feel that an often overlooked hardpoint is the engine hardpoint. People cruise around going \"haha, I blew your shield generators and turbolasers!\" at which point my ship simply hyperspaces away (in GC mode, anyway). Disabling a capital ship\'s engines is a seriously good idea, since it reduces their ability to target dramatically, as well as reducing their already pretty poor acceleration, allowing your ships to do a quick burn, scoot around behind them to their weaponry\'s blind spot, and then pound out the shields/weapons. Less effective against frigates, though.


/{[[===============================,
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\\|
`\\
Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee...
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-24-07 05:44 PM EDT (US)     16 / 238       

Quote:

Has anyone ever tried using an all Fighter and Corellian Corvette fleet?

I've tried that, but I replace the Vettes with Gunships. X and Awings take care of enemy fighters, so the Vettes are mostly redundant. Gunships knock out Tartans faster, and do wonders to back up the bombers against CapShip hardpoints.


Quote:

Disabling a capital ship\'s engines is a seriously good idea, since it reduces their ability to target dramatically, as well as reducing their already pretty poor acceleration, allowing your ships to do a quick burn, scoot around behind them to their weaponry\'s blind spot, and then pound out the shields/weapons. Less effective against frigates, though.

A good point that's not often brought up. Engine is always the third hardpoint I hit after Shield Gen and Hanger bays, or 1st if the other two are not present. This is especially significant against ImpStars and MonCals, which take a long time to turn or move anyway.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit

[This message has been edited by Stormraider (edited 01-24-2007 @ 05:46 PM).]

DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-24-07 07:42 PM EDT (US)     17 / 238       
Go Sailing again good point, i tried using the gunships instead of the Vettes, worked wonders. It reduced the amount of fighters i lost by 75% (i did the math). Also i agree about the Hardpoints, i always go for the Hangars to stop those pesky TIE Bombers and the Shield Generator, this makes taking out the engines alot easier

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 01-24-07 08:14 PM EDT (US)     18 / 238       
That actually is the very common counter for that in battles of 8-20 infantry where it won't be one shot kill. It works, I'm not denying that but the simple counter is to shoot a different unit that is weakened a bit by units attacking it (not by targeting it, no micro is perfect no matter how much you practice) so it is one hit kill or 2. The other thing is you wait for the enemy to bring the unit back in the battle then you knock it out. If he doesn't bring it back in battle then you may as well have killed it because it isn't fighting (unless hes Franks, but thats another matter)

Anyways, I can really see the value of an all fighter fleet but I'm curious how the cost is compared to some fleets people have listed above. Obviously capital ships cost more but they take multiple points. Nevermind, I just thought about the prices and did simple math to figure it would be a bit cheaper. Has anybody tried fighter fleets with Empire? I'd assume it would be crap with the strength of their ships, but it would be worth a try I think. Or just grab a pirate station and mass those (that works really well with like 5-7 squads of bombers)


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
WatchWood
Ensign
posted 01-25-07 01:24 PM EDT (US)     19 / 238       
With the empire, my tactic is usually just a combo of ImpStars and Tartans. Tartans fry fighters and ImpStars fry everything else. Their fighters make a nice backup and scout screen, but the empire just doesn't have the inherent fighter strength for that kind of a tactic.


I'm Your Daddy
92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
Can't believe on back on this damned site again.
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-25-07 02:22 PM EDT (US)     20 / 238       
I use Ties simply to defend the Tie Bombers from fighters, and divert Vettes away until I can take them out. The AI is generally stupid enough to follow the Eyeballs away, and leave my bombers free to work.

"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
WatchWood
Ensign
posted 01-25-07 02:52 PM EDT (US)     21 / 238       
That they are. And the best part is that they come for free with your capital ships.


I'm Your Daddy
92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
Can't believe on back on this damned site again.
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-25-07 08:12 PM EDT (US)     22 / 238       
This is all asuming that ur enemy is stupid. A smart enemy adapts quickly to those situations, which is why a fighter fleet for the Rebels work, because they move so quickyl anf fludily they rspond beuatifully to new situations. I was giving this example to a friend of mine and showing him how the fighters moved trhoguh the CapShips heavy lasers and blew up everything and how the Corellian Gunship took care of the Tartans.

Anyways TIE Fighters are incredibly weak, i have seen one of my X-Squadrons get shot up by a Tartan after they left the protection of th Corellian Gunships guns, they were going after a squadron of Bombers, so they have two fgihters left so they finish off the Bombers. By now i have stopped controlling them cause this is getting interesting, so the enemy dispatches a full TIE Fighter squadron to finish off my X-Wing squadron and now i have to retake the controls, i lock the S-Foils and they speed ahead into an asteroid field and i wait to see the if the TIe squadron is still following me, they come into the asteroid field and i send my X-Wings around them and unlcok the S-Foils and the X-Wings one at a time take out the TIEs. The TIEs had already landed some shots on the X-Wings but the X-Wings durability held and they killed off the TIE squadron.

GoSailing, i did try the Fighter Fleet tactic with the Empire...it was crap! The Corvettes took out all the fighters that i could pull out, and the MonCal cruisers immeaditly went for my Hangars, so the Fighter Fleet tactic with the empire is a bust. All in all with that battle along with all the other ones i tried to use the Fighter Fleet in, i lost everything and they lost, on average two-three ships or squadrons


May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr

[This message has been edited by DeadlyRifle (edited 01-25-2007 @ 08:29 PM).]

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 01-25-07 09:34 PM EDT (US)     23 / 238       
Yea I figured as much. The Emp's fighters are absolute crap which is OK when they come free (or nearly, the price would probably drop on cap ships if not for fighters) but making a fleet with only them wouldn't work well...

Watchwood, what about Mon Cal cruisers? Do you just leave the ISD's to slug it out or do you bring counters (drawing a blank can't think of counters for them)?


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Stormraider
Lieutenant
posted 01-26-07 00:53 AM EDT (US)     24 / 238       

Quote:

Watchwood, what about Mon Cal cruisers? Do you just leave the ISD's to slug it out or do you bring counters (drawing a blank can't think of counters for them)?

The ISD's bombers give it the advantage.


"we have an agenda, a character assassination agenda, assassinating characters is what we do for a living" - Sukkit
DeadlyRifle
Ensign
posted 01-28-07 10:11 AM EDT (US)     25 / 238       
Which then in turn get blown to pieces by Corellian Corvettes and then the ISD's get blwon to pieces by the Mon Cals, because they kick ISDs like i eat lunch after running the mile in gym.

May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
- General George Patton Jr
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